is their economy growing -- >> i get that. but also, as you know, the whole point of televised debate, there is a measure of how did you look? how did you seem? did you seem presidential? did you seem aggressive? did you seem like the underdog? did you -- did you flub? did you stutter? all those things, too, in addition to the specifics of policy and the actual facts that will be discussed, are also important. right? >> well, soledad, i think it means a lot to people on television. i worked in television for many years, too. certainly that is the chatter that many times people want to bring up to the public. it still comes down to this point of what did someone say, not just how did they look. this isn't election for the prom king. this is an election for president of the united states -- >> right, no, and i would agree with you on that and that's not what i'm saying so i'll stop you there if i can. i agree with you on that. i'm not saying how you look, i guess you would say how you can command and navigate a debate is, might